ALTO Digital Crossover?

**bowtie427ss** · October 14th, 2008, 12:04 PM

Sorry i don't have any comments regarding that specific model. I've watched the Alto stuff for a couple years, and it seems that the models are constantly changing which made me a little leary of them.

I use one of these:

DCX1

And i also have one of these which is a very good alternative for folks who just can't allow themselves to buy a Behringer product.

DS26

I haven't spent a lot of time tinkering with the BBE yet, that season will soon be here.

A few basic observations i'd make about the DCX2496:

A) it seems that the DCX sounds better running a significant signal thru it. Some of the serious hifi tweakers recommend keeping the ingain and outgain at or near unity and controlling the system gain with 4 or 6 gang attenuators on the DCX outputs.

B) It could use a larger internal memory.

C) it does NOT allow overlapping of it's pass bands

I realize this isn't what you asked for, but my personal feeling would be to avoid the Alto stuff until some credible reviews can be found.

Lots of accolades for the DCX, and tho there's not much out there on the DS26, Barcus Berry has been around for a long time which tends to give me a bit of confidence in their products.

Just my .02 y'all understand...............

**Old Guy** · October 14th, 2008, 12:06 PM

Generally Alto has a very bad reputation.

The designed in "Italy" is pure bull.

Stuff is made by a Chinese company called Sekaku. Alto is some sort of venture between Sekaku and Yorkville. Yorkville made the old Traynor guitar amps if anybody remembers those.

Basically Behringer grade stuff or maybe one notch below.

However Behringer backs up their products better than many expensive manufacturers. Jim Savery at Behringer USA is a top sausage.

Basically, proceed with caution, make sure you have a return privelige. If it breaks in a couple years parts will probably not be available.

It however may sound just great. forums

[ October 14, 2008 09:07 AM: Message edited by: O G ]

**mah** · October 14th, 2008, 03:07 PM

G'day,

Looing for comment on the ALTO digital crossover- see link to user's manual site.

Cheers, Marshall.

Alto Manual

**Vathek** · October 14th, 2008, 07:35 PM

I've had the Behringer dcx for a while and it's unbeatable at that price point. It's very flexible and sounds OK. There's different filter types with different slopes, you get a delay for each driver and there are also parametric eq's which comes in very handy for bass control, as most non-treated rooms mess with your bass response considerably. Eqing that out is not the best way, but it can improve things.
The converters and opamps driving them are not top notch, but to better them you have to spend considerably more.
Another advantage is that it's quite common in diy-audio circles which means there are tons of mods and experience floating around. This is not the case with the alto.
So if a digital speaker controller is what you're after, go for the behringer.

There is just one thing that's often overlooked and is not specific for the berry, it applies to all digital crossovers. It's absolutely mandatory to have a multi-channel volume control after the unit for gain adjustment! I have to correct bowtie on this one. This is not an audiophile preference like powercords made by virgins with platinum from saturn. An AD-converter has to be driven with a full line level signal, otherwise you'll lose bit resolution at conversion. You might get away with it if you alway listen at similar levels, but in general it's just plain wrong to use it like an analog crossover where you typically set your gain with the preamp before the x-over. Digital converters always have to be driven at full level. Levelling before is big no-no and might explain the prejudices towards such units, people just use them wrong and low resolution digital truly does sound horrible..
The easiest solution is to use a multichannel surround-receiver, but these amps are usually not the best sonically unless you spend a lot more than that behringer dcx costs. There is one commercial solution made by SPL called the volume8, which is just a high quality 8-channel analog volume control, but that's about twice what a dcx costs. Joshua Tree offers a brilliant DIY modular stepped attenuator, but they're currently unavailable. Specifically for the behringer there's a diy-kit mod to include volume control, but it's also more $$ than the unit itself.

Don't get me wrong, I love digital crossovers and their flexibility, but the volume control problem has to be taken into the equation unless you always listen at the same volume.

cheers, David

ps. the behringer accepts spdif on its aes/ebu input which is great for hooking up cd-players etc.

**Old Guy** · October 14th, 2008, 09:18 PM

Originally posted by Vathek:

There is just one thing that's often overlooked and is not specific for the berry, it applies to all digital crossovers. It's absolutely mandatory to have a multi-channel volume control after the unit for gain adjustment!
Don't get me wrong, I love digital crossovers and their flexibility, but the volume control problem has to be taken into the equation unless you always listen at the same volume.

cheers, David

Hmm- do not most amps have controls which could be turned down, allowing the Behr to run fullout?

Just asking, all of mine do.

**bowtie427ss** · October 14th, 2008, 10:40 PM

Hmm- do not most amps have controls which could be turned down, allowing the Behr to run fullout?

This is the compromise i'm currently living with. It's not the same as having a "volume" control, but it's relatively easy to change between my two most common listening levels and keep the Behringer seeing the signal level it needs to play nice with the rest of the family.

Thank you Vathek, for explaining this far more concisely than i ever could have. forums

The next time the neighbors are begging me to send the band home, i'm gonna show them this thread. forums

**Vathek** · October 15th, 2008, 08:23 AM

Hmm- do not most amps have controls which could be turned down, allowing the Behr to run fullout?

Just asking, all of mine do.

Of course, all of mine do too. But we're talking six independent volume controls here. Apart from the inconvenience of having to turn six (or three if they're stereo) knobs at the same time, you'll never be able to keep the relative balance between them intact, meaning the balance between the bass/mids/high will be screwed up after each volume change.
Those volume controls on the amps can and should be used to match the efficiency of the different drivers, so the DAs in the x-over can run at full level. But to change the overall volume of your system, you need a way of controlling all of the amps at the same time.
A relative change of let's say 1db between your woofer and compression driver alters the sound of the speaker considerably, so this 'master' volume control has to be very precise. That's why I only referred to rather expensive solutions. There are several inexpensive 6-channel pots (by alps for example) out there, but they all have tracking errors of at least +-1db and that's just not good enough for this application.

If you can live with two or three fixed volume levels, you could mark the pots on the amps so they're always at the same relative position. That's what bowtie does if I understood correctly. Technically correct, but not for the ergonomically challenged.. forums

**bowtie427ss** · October 15th, 2008, 11:39 AM

If you can live with two or three fixed volume levels, you could mark the pots on the amps so they're always at the same relative position. That's what bowtie does if I understood correctly. Technically correct, but not for the ergonomically challenged..

Amen!

In my situation the amps have gain controls with good detents, they help ensure that i'm using the same gain settings each time. If the amps were racked as they should be, this option would be negated as my gain controls are all rear mounted.

Also, the system in question is NOT my "daily driver", if it were i'd be forced to adopt a more appropriate solution. For casual listening in the basement, while less than ideal this works for now.

**Old Guy** · October 15th, 2008, 08:59 PM

Just fo grins...if budget is the issue. Behringer makes a crossover for a little above $100...not he bottom line model.

It does have delays on the outs...but AFAIK only 24dB/octave slopes.

I'm sure Alto makes a similar unit. The ALTO rep got PO'd at me when I suggested it stood for "A Lot like The Other one.